Nick Saalfeld's Corporate Podcasting Page

Podcasting for business- listen in

Hear me talking about podcasting for business... in a podcast.

It's in the latest edition (No. 11) of the excellent Enterprise Nation podcast: http://www.enterprisenation.com/

In the interview, I'm in the company of some other excellent business podcasters- well worth a listen.

Content is King

Hi there,

First off, apologies for disappearing off the radar- we've been busily putting the finishing touches to some great new client podcasts- but more on that next week.

Today I just want to briefly evangelise about content. In the online world, content generators like me often have something of a crisis of confidence: do people really want all this stuff we produce? Advertisers worry about it too: if people aren't listening and watching, where will the brand exposure come from?

That's why I was pleased to see this in today's Daily Telegraph, written by one of our most respected business journalists, Damian Reece. Talking about the ongoing spat between Virgin Media and Sky (and commenting on the effect this has had on Virgin Media's subscriber numbers), Reece says:

"Virgin will never beat Sky until it reaches deep into its pockets and spends some really big bucks on must-have content. That's what really differentiates Sky from Virgin in consumers' minds and what gives Sky the upper hand in all negotiations between the pair."

Now, I'm not Sky, (and you don't have to spend really big bucks all the time) but this hits the nail on the head: companies all now have the opportunity to be content generators and content owners; and these intangible assets often represent tremendous real long-term value.

Podcasting: The Agency story

Hi there,

This week for me has been a flurry of meetings with marketing, digital and integrated agencies around London.

It made me think that, to help them get their heads around podcasts, it would be nice to have a quick checklist as to whether podcasting is right for them. So here's my list, and it's as applicable to coporate clients as it is to agency folks. I hope it's of use to you.

Here are the questions to ask, to find out whether a podcast idea is a good idea:

• Will anyone listen? Simple, but often ignored just because podcasting sounds like fun. I often talk about a "contract": we are expecting a listener to contract themselves to devote, say, ten minutes to our message. If you can't convince yourself that what you are proposing is worth the listener's contracted time, go back to the drawing board.
• Is there a payoff? This is the equivalent of "What's in it for me?". If you can't express a clear payoff to the listener, a clear benefit for their effort, then start again.
• Can we engage? Nothing succeeds better than making an offer to the listener which is engaging, which makes them glad they were a part of the audience.
• Do we know our audience? In an internal comms environment, the answer is usually "yes". In a public-facing marketing plan, the answer is usually "sort of". The better you know the audience, the better you can target their specific needs.
• Is the audience podcast-savvy? They don't have to be Ipod owners, nor do they have to buy in to the mp3-player-carrying lifestyle. But if your target market is from the D&E demographic, there's every chance they might not even have a computer, let alone the impetus to download podcasts. If so, go back to direct mail...
• Do you have clear objectives? Some clients just like podcasting because it seems like a good idea. This is the way to a fall. I ask clients specifically what they want to get out of a podcast- perhaps it's sales, perhaps it's client knowledge, perhaps better customer service. Either way, if we don't have a clear objective, we have no way of measuring success. And then I look stupid six months down the line. Ask what you're trying to achieve, and how you're going to measure it.

These six questions may mean that 50% of podcast proposals fall at one or more hurdles.

But the remaining 50% are good ideas and warrnt further discussion- I hope these questions lead you to many successful podcasts.

The justification for podcasting and 'Web 2.0'

Hi all,

It's been a busy couple of weeks and I've finally got back to writing a few lines here- thank you all for your kind comments and trackbacks.

I'm in the middle of a stint of meetings with agencies and marketing companies, all of whom are excited about podcasting and other engagement tools, but who are also worried that this might all be just a flash in the pan.

A simple question they ask is, why do I want to podcast? Sure, we're all media owners now, but do we really want to be?

Good question.

I've often said here and elsewhere that podcasting sits in the 'Web 2.0' toolkit, but there are so many definitions of Web 2.0 that you could probably fill in your own blanks.

So here's my definition, and it puts podcasting in a pretty fundamental place.

If I want to buy something online, what do I do? I probably go to Froogle, Google's price comparison service. Maybe I go to Ebay. If it's a full moon perhaps I'll try Kelkoo. These are all superb examples of Web 1.0- superb manipulation of data and information.

The problem is, these bring commerce down to one factor: price.

So if you run a company that's proud of its service, proud of its people, proud of its ethical commitment, proud of its customer satisfaction, proud of its agility, proud of its responsiveness... hey, tough luck.

To me, Web 2.0 simply means web services that go beyond information manipulation. Whether it's engagement and participation, a fuller media offering, a deeper corporate insight or even just a few more points of audience contact, podcasting, along with blogging and the plethora of other new online developments serve to build brands and services which go beyond raw data.

So when clients say to me, "Why should I podcast?", I say: do you want to compete on price, or do you want to compete on all the other values your brand stands for?

Maybe podcasting isn't the only answer (or isn't the whole answer). That's fine. But to fail to add engagement media into the mix at all is to make price, or other basic data, the only differentiator in your business.

Corporate Podcasting Summit- Comments and Engagement Presentation

Hi there,

First off, thanks for the lively comments on the Summit- you can read them here.

My presentation and the accompanying notes are now available online too.

And with thanks to Matt O'Neill of Activ-Media, who shared the platform with me, there is now a superb flash execution of our round-table discussion on engagement, interaction and user-generated content too. I think these flash presentations are a superb way to add extra meaning to a podcast without going down the whole video route- see for yourself!

Thanks again to everyone who participated!

We came, we saw, we sponsored: CPS-Europe '07

Hi there,

So I'm back at my desk after a fun couple of days in the company of US and European podcasters at Podcast Summit Europe 2007. We were truly proud to be sponsors of the event, and it was a pleasure to hook up with so many good people. I met podcasters and marketers, plus some great podcast industry bloggers (Paul Colligan, Jason van Orden, Leesa Barnes- links down the left of this page).

If you go to my company's website, you'll see what we do- and we're proud of it. But this is my personal blog- and whether you're in the podcasting business, a company looking to podcast, or an individual, this is where you'll find the unvarnished truth. So here it is: what I learned this week at CPS-E'07:

• Clients still need education. Not on the intricacies of podcasts: I mean on the basics. Like, what is a podcast. Start there. If you're reading this and you know that podcasting is not beholden to Apple, you're already way ahead of the crowd.
• The podcasting industry needs to get its head out of its arse (or ass for my US readers). I got a real sense that delegates were embarrassed because they enjoyed broadcasting so much, perhaps there wasn't actually a business in it. There is. Enjoy. Stop worrying.
• Some podcast companies seem to think that this is about editing or production. No it is not, and anyone who sets up a podcast agency to do production will fail. Production is a "flat-rate", price-sensitive off-the-shelf service which someone on Elance or an outsource agency could do. The value of a podcast agency is in strategy, format development, monetization, audience engagement, ongoing maintenance of feedback loops etc. Production is not a service.
• The excellent David Prever of BrandSpanking asked a superb question. "If a brand has £19 million to spend, how does podcasting achieve a deserving place as part of that budget". He didn't get a straight answer. Let me provide it. Media in the brand context is valued according to its value to the client, not the cost of production. Otherwise the people who think up slogans would charge tuppence ha'penny. Podcasting must prove its value- and do so in the context of engagement, whether to new audiences, existing customers or as a customer service tool. The metrics are currently badly argued (not non-existent, just badly argued in pitches) and we all owe it to ourselves as an industry to present our case more effectively. In the absence of perfect stats (and thankyou Feedburner for improving things) I simply say to clients, start with a £20K job. If I can prove a £100k return on the metrics of the client's choice, then we'll start talking about a share of the £19million.

So there it is. Clarion call over. A highly educational Summit, our thanks to Paul Colligan for hosting, and let's get our house in order!

What happens at the end? Nothing!

Just a quick tip here.

One of my commenters, Dr Savi, makes a comment here, and mentions the right way to insert advertising (or more likely sponsorship messages) into corporate podcasts.

It's interesting because whilst I've said elsewhere that there's no need to reinvent the wheel (use interviews- they work on radio, tell a story- it works on radio etc...), the positioning of messages is very different from radio.

On radio and TV, sponsor messages appear at the beginning and end, and as "bumpers" between programme content and commercial breaks.

In podcasts, this doesn't work at all!

A sponsor message at the beginning tends to set the audience's expectations towards a hard sell, which is very sad if you've put lots of effort and money into an informative programme.

Worse still, at the end of a podcast, your message is lost. Completely. I believe that just as most people will not go to the trouble of fast-forwarding through a twenty-second promo, they will absolutely switch off and move to something else as soon as the end-theme and credits start to roll. So a corporate message at the end will generally lose 70%+ of the audience.

A minority of listeners may well be glued to their Ipods jogging through the park, but as over 60% of listeners are sat at their PC's, it takes only a click for them to miss your hard-won messaging opportunity.

The hard rule here is: don't leave anything important to the back end of your podcast, and certainly not once the outro theme has begun!

So what's the answer?

My intuition says, do anything production-oriented in the middle. In the middle of your show, you've already established your editorial credentials enough to warrant the listener continuing to listen; and they will be aware that there's more good stuff to come.

Additionally, if you want to get a promo in fast at the front end, perhaps do it in an unobtrusive way with a presenter-read comment rather than an overblown production promo. That way the brand profile is neatly dovetailed into the content, and can be presented positively. "Today's edition of Build a Better Widget, with the support of Widgets Inc, looks at how Widgets can help around the home" is a much softer sell and won't alienate the audience.

And of course, soft-sell works in a podcast- unlike online advertising, your promo doesn't have to compete for attention with lots of other stuff on-screen.

So:

1. Don't overblow your front-end promotion- it will alienate your audience
2. And don't do anything at the back end (at least, not expecting results) - the off button is still your enemy!

Corporate Podcasting Strategies in a nutshell

Hi there,

It's not often I'm happy to send my entire subscriber base off to someone else's site wholesale, but in this case it's worth it.

Whatever you do, please check out this superb posting from Jeremiah Owyang- he's got it 100% spot-on, and there's perfect advice here for anyone getting started with corporate podcasting. Follow Jeremiah' advice and you're well on your way.

Then come back here for more of my ramblings, please.

Let's talk advertising

Hi there,

In this post I want to skim through some of the issues around advertising in podcasts.

It's a fast-moving business, because new technologies to insert advertisements into podcasts are only just emerging.

First off, as this blog concerns itself only with corporate podcasts, you might wonder why a company would want to have advertisements in its podcasts at all. You wouldn't advertise someone else's product in your corporate brochure, would you?

It's not so simple.

To return to first principles, a corporate podcast is not, and must not, ever, be a pure promotion. Pure promotions are those late night TV shows selling hocus-pocus beauty products and exercise machines you'll never use. There's a reason those shows are on late at night. You don't want to position your business in 'that' sort of company, do you? Instead, I can think of no better description for a good programme than the mantra adopted by the BBC at its inception- "To inform, educate, and entertain".

Podcasts are not like promotional literature; they can be much more creatively executed, and there may well be a good reason to insert advertising from other associated or relevant companies.

The media landscape is also changing: the technology is (almost) here for podcasts to be aggregated into channels, supported by ads. You like chess? Listen to a chess channel which aggregates podcasts from individuals and companies around the world, catering specifically for your interest. This sort of thing is on the way- and it will be highly monetised. Companies like Kiptronic in the US and Cheeze in the UK are matching up clients with podcasts.

Then, there are of course a whole bunch of corporate entities who should actively be recruiting advertisers- publishers or trade show organisers, for example.

So it's fair even in the corporate landscape to be investigating advertising technologies.

I have said elsewhere, that I think there are two trends on the way.

The first is the tools for insertion of adverts at the point of upload. This can happen on the desktop, and is effective for publishers who wish to manage their own traffic- very much like a radio station, in a basic way.

The second trend is server-based, and would insert ads at the point of download. This is much more efficient, as it allows back-catalogue podcasts to be indexed and ads inserted. A sponsor could, for example, own all traffic downloaded in March 2007, even though the original programme was recorded way back in 2006.

This second trend will win through, not only because of its flexibility, but also because clients are demanding ever more sophistication from their podcasts which should be delivered at the point of download. Advertisers will, for example, want A-B testing in order to find out which version of an ad works better. Similarly, clients will want versions of whole shows- one version free, one paid, for example. All this is easy to do at the point of download.

I believe that for corporates, the issue comes down to some very basic questions:

• Is this the sort of podcast, with the sort of traffic that can support ads, and if so, can I countenance advertising in my corporate media environment? (i.e. do I fancy a bit of extra money for my exciting content creation)
• If so, what sort of ads am I (and my listeners) prepared to tolerate?

All of which brings us to the content of advertising in podcasts. Some simple rules to be getting on with.

1. 20". That's the maximum. Radio shows have breaks of 2 minutes or more. But the internet is a medium of immediacy- listeners are intolerant, and in any case, if I am sitting on the train, I will fast-forward through a 2-minute break, whereas I can't be bothered to fast-forward through a 20" break.
2. The 20" rule is also why we think sponsorship works better than advertising.
3. As an aside, we also have a 5" rule: no matter how good your intro theme is, get to the introductory words within five seconds. Again, podcast listeners are impatient- hand over your wisdom fast!
4. On the plus side, few podcasts are longer than ten minutes at the moment. I expect this to change- we are already successfully delivering 30-minute corporate podcasts to happy audiences, and provided the content is right, people will listen. Insert ads at a maximum of once every ten minutes; or indeed sponsor messages at the start and middle of a shorter programme. Why not the end? Because listeners will switch off as soon as the outro music begins.
5. Finally, what about the content of the ads? It's very tempting right now to simply insert what are in the UK radio trade called "presenter-reads", ads read by the presenter. They're easy to do and require no commercial production. I am ambivalent on this. It associates the presenter with the product, and, particularly in the corporate context, I think it muddies the editorial integrity of the programme. I am inclined to learn from years of radio experience and keep ads separate, similarly people expect to hear sponsor messages neatly inserted onto the intro and break-bumpers of the programme. If nothing else, it makes sense to match an audience's expectations of a radio programme, rather than expect them to understand advertising messages delivered in an unconventional way.

I will return to advertising in future posts, but for now, don't dismiss ads entirely just because you're a company- there are models for business which will make money, and with the tools now at every marketer's disposal, everyone can be a profitable broadcaster.

Death and taxes are predictable... the public isn't!

Hi there,

Web designers, content specialists like me and marketing folks spend lots of time trying to map out the user journey: the paths taken by the public through a website and the ways in which they use it. The aim is to make this journey as simple as possible, and to try to shepherd the user towards the desired result: a purchase decision, for example.

But whilst death and taxes are predictable, the behaviour of the public most certainly isn't. They resolutely take all sorts of odd paths through a site, and behave in interesting and unpredictable ways.

I bring this up, because this week an interesting example of this occurred with one of our podcasts.

My colleague Simon Graham of MWA Design handles the site design which sits behind the very popular Beermat Radio podcasts which we produce. He recently made some alterations to the site; which has resulted in an increase in podcast downloads of some 18%. Now, this is of course good news- I'm very pleased we have increased our listenership. But an uplift of such a great degree due to a site design change suggests something very odd: namely that lots of our site visitors are not subscribing to the podcasts (which would then automatically download), but rather are religiously visiting the site and deciding for themselves whether they would like to download the latest edition.

This goes contrary to the popular wisdom that most users will subscribe and decide later whether they want to listen. Clearly our audience is discerning and selective.

This has taught us a lot- and emphasises the fact that the supporting content around a podcast (the landing pages, promotional pages etc.) are nothing short of essential to get right. We'll be making more progressive tweaks to the site, as every good web venture does; but the lesson is there: always look at the statistics because your users have the power to constantly surprise.